NEW IDEAS FROM BYU GENEALOGICAL CONFERNCE, 5 Aug 2004:
-- USE POOR LAW RECORDS. These usually have information on everyone in the parish. This might especially be true in a place where one parent dies, then another -- hopefully we can find something.
-- Write to record offices first. They have sources and indexes, especially new ones, that we don't have here.
-- Put an ad in the Somerset and Dorset FHS magazine to find someone who knows something about people who worked on the railroad on the Bath line, which was John Grey's occupation.
-- Also, in the same ad, see if it's possible to find an obituary for John, who died in Saltford in March of 1886.
-- Search everything, since you will never know what you will find.
NOTE: There are notes in this entry referring to E. and W. Knoyle records not being avail in SLC. They are. It is actually E. and W. Tisbury that are not!
BIRTH NOTES: Born between 25 Jul 1786 and 23 Jul 1788 approximately (from of calculated birth from death date).
OCCUPATIONS/JOBS: Labourer
R E S E A R C H L O G
DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION/IDEAS:
-- Those married in Pertwood who originated in other parishes came chiefly from Longbridge Deverill and East Knoyle. People who had children baptized there lived at Wincanton (Somerset), Frome (Somerset), Longbridge Deverill, Heytesbury, Mon(c)kton Deverill, and Brixton Deverill. Check possible migration patterns.
IDEAS/SOURCES CHECKED:
-- I went to Pertwood in Jun 1988. Some new owners had just moved in. They said many of the residents in years passed had written their names on a barn door, along with his or her corresponding place and date of birth. A check of this yielded negative results. The older man told us that there was also a window frame inside the main house that people signed, with the same purpose and information as the door, but that it was such a mess now in that room, as they were just moving in, he wouldn't let us in to see it at the time. In May 1994, I went back again; the same people lived there, but the woman denied there being any window frame with names on it. This may be just a ruse and it might be worth checking later.
WRITE NAME OF THE PERTWOOD PEOPLE IN THIS SPACE ABOVE!
SOURCES TO SEARCH:
-- Look in Mere, West Knoyle, and East Knoyle. The GRAY's are most populous in this particular area, and we have at least a small tie to East Knoyle (this person's child died in 1835 after the death of both of his parents at the age of 17; he was from the parish of EAST KNOYLE at the time of death).
IS EAST KNOYLE THE ONE WE DON'T HAVE PARISH RECORDS FOR?! CHECK HERE FOR MARY AND THOMAS GRAY'S MARRIAGE, THEIR BIRTHS. THIS IS PROBABLY WHERE THEY CAME FROM.
-- On birth: Checked 30 surrounding parishes to find any Thomas GRAY's born: GIVE LIST.
-- On marriage: Check for marriage records in the area which show a Thomas GRAY from Hill Deverill marrying a Mary at just about the right time. Children's death records are not not good. They are not supposed to have parents' names. Am checking for marriage records now (10/95), but may have missed a few possible years (1800-1805), although did also check much of this. I'm not sure, but this maybe should be checked again, both with PRs and BTs. Looked many parishes in the surrounding area, nix. The records searched are:
RECORDS SEARCHED FOR MARRIAGE:
Bishop's Transcripts: Hilperton, Codford St. Mary, Boyton, Hill Deverill, Brixton Deverill, Hindon, Trowbridge, and Sedgehill.
Marriage Parish Register Extracts: Monkton Deverill, Sherrington, and Boyton.
Parish Registers: Little Cheverill, Westbury, Warminster (all), Bishopstrow, Heytesbury, Knook (missing 1809-1813), Upton Lovell, Codford St. Peter, Stockton, Chilmark, Fonthill Bishop, East Tisbury, West Tisbury, Alvediston, Berwick St. John, Berwick St. Leonard, Fonthill Gifford, Hindon, Chicklade, Horningsham, Maiden Bradley, Kilmington, Stourton, Mere, Kingston Deverill, Brixton Deverill, Hill Deverill, Longbridge Deverill, Sutton Veny, East Knoyle, Mon(c)kton Deverill (missing years 1813-1816). Also Wylye, Codford St. Mary, Alvediston, (these ones not drawn on map, but checked off on list). Also possibly Sedgehill.
Independent Churches:
Other Misc: (including Bishop's Transcripts): Hilperton, Boyton, Codford St. Mary, Sherrington, and Sedgehill.
Though East and West Knoyle, 2 parishes extremely close to Pertwood aren't available in SLC. I know the records exist, because I looked at them in in a catalog in the Wiltshire County Records Office in Trowbridge. These two parishes need to be checked for Thomas Gray and Mary. I wonder if it may be the wrong couple there.
-- Found a marriage of a Thomas Gray and Mary in Warminster. There was no Thomas Gray born in Warminster (where he supposedly married his wife) in the correct period, so although he (possibly) resided there later, he wasn't born there, and thus, could have possibly been our possible man from Hill Deverill. See if they had kids in Warminster, which then stop at the point that they start having kids in Pertwood.
-- Look for a family bible. Since James was older than John, perhaps it would be in James' family in England. Try to find the descendants of James there. It would be tough.
-- Did this family have any other children anywhere else? This might be a worthy check, though IGI parent checks in 1995 yielded nothing. Filter to Wiltshire, Dorset, and Somerset especially. They seem old enough to have been married even as early as 1806. She seems to be six years his senior. These ages were calculated from burial dates, though hers was obviously messed up (see her notes). It may be necessary to make a more careful check. Check marriage 1806-1816, at least.
-- The kids would have been, at the oldest, 16, 14, 14, and 9 years old, at their last parent's death. They would all have been juveniles. In England, there were likely no guardian records; they probably just went to a relative and lived there. Possibilities would be grandparents, uncles or aunts. Later on, James and John end up in Newton St. Loe and Corston, Somerset, respectively. This might be an indication that the entire family was in this area of Somerset. Also, John's possible "twin," Joseph, died in East Knoyle, Wilts, in 1835. They may have all lived with a relative in East Knoyle. If so, the only record of them there might be marriage records. Since the couple was usually married in the woman's parish, Ann might be the only one married in West Knoyle. If the 1881 ever gets computerized and Ann ever lived long enough, she might be found there. Her two surviving brothers seemed to live to a good old age. Other church records besides marriage would not be available to us.
-- See if someone you know can go check in Trowbridge on this Thomas GRAY's marriage to Mary in some of the parishes we don't have access to here. Maybe Susan Paul in Westbury could do that. If not, it may be possible to have Headley Burridge do it (that may be even closer, since he is right there in Trowbridge). Have them check Zeals, East Knoyle, West Knoyle, and Mere. Under MOVING PATTERNS, also see note that starts, "In order to get..."
-- Look for traces of him through his other son, James, our uncle, perhaps through his church or civil marriage records.
LINKS:
-- There is one other Thomas GRAY born in the vicinity in another parish, but he didn't fall within the range of the calculated birthdate, as this one did. He could still be the one also. This link not 100% sure, but of the thirty surrounding parishes, the only Thomas GREY found who was born exactly within the correct time period (calculated from death age), came from Hill Deverill parish. There is one other parish, even closer to Pertwood, with many GREY's, Berwick St. Leonard's, but records are poor there, and I may have missed somthing or the years themselves may have been missing. The records of these 30 parishes were original Wiltshire County parish records from County Records Office, Trowbridge, Wiltshire. Towns searched for his birth were:
TOWNS SEARCHED FOR BIRTH/MARRIAGE:
Pertwood, Chicklade, Hindon, West Knoyle (2), E. Knoyle, Tisbury (Grays), Salisbury St. Edmund (no Grays), Warminster St. Denys, Warminster, Bishopstrow, Norton Bavant, Mere (Grays), Sutton Veny, Longbridge Deverill (Thomas, son of Edwards and Susannah Gray, born 21 May 1786 - this one is slightly off, i.e. about 1 mo. outside of possible calcualted range - could be good) (no marriages found), Hill Deverill (Grays) (Thomas born of James and Grace Gray b. 21 Dec 1786) and Chr 8 Jul 1787) (no existing marriage records 1812-1818), Brixton Deverill, Kingston Deverill, Mon(c)kton Deverill, Berwick St. Leonard, Berwick St. James, Fonthill Gifford (Grays) ( marriages only), Boyton, Heytesbury (marriages only), Sherrington (no Grays), Stockton (no Grays), Chilmark (book, not microfiche, not listed, go to original records), Zeals (Mere) (after 1840), Sedgehill (no Grays).
-- Found his supposed marriage on the IGI. This needs to be verified in the records. It seems likely, since it is probably the only Thomas GRAY married to a Mary in the area and at the right time (The rest of Warminster was NOT checked; this was just found on IGI). Only problem is her birth compared to the known info for this man's actual wife. See her notes for the confusing story on her birthdate.
MOVING PATTERNS/IDEAS:
-- One other parish to check and I'm not sure if it has been checked yet, that is just full of Grey's is possibly Mere. Just double-check. I am still fairly confident that this is our line, however. 12 (microfiche?) pp of Grey's in Wiltshire census 1881, 8 from Dorset, 4.5? from Somerset.
-- In order to get an idea of where the GREY/GRAY names come from and to do work for them, I have extracted all of them from the 1851 census for southwest Wilts, part of north Dorset, and part of east Somerset. The line I have extracted from in Wilts is pretty much as follows: A line running from the northern borders of Corsely and Upton Scudamore eastward (excluding Edington, including Imber and Chittern), southward at Chitterne, eastward again at Fisherton de la Mere (excluding Waddington and Winterbourne Stoke), from there southward including Berwick St. James and Stapleford, excluding Wilsford, Woodford, Bemerton, Salisbury, (but INcluding Netherhampton), Stratford Tony, Martin, and Damerham, but inclusing all portions of sw Wilts. within those boundaries. In Dorset, I extracted all parishes from Bourton on the north, going southeast to Ashmore along and everything in between near the border only (i.e., excluding East Stour, Stour Provost, Todber, Buckhorn Weston, Kington Magna, etc.). In the southern part of that area only did I check parishes not bordering Wilts., namely Compton Abbas, Fontmell Magna, Sutton Waldron, Iverne Minster, East Orchard, Margaret Marsh, Farningham?, and West Orchard. In Somerset, I checked parishes of Wincanton, Bruton, Pitcombe, Shepton Mantague, North Cheriton, Maperton, Corston, Saltford, and Stanton Prior. In all of this area, the greatest concentration of GRAY's was in the Mere area. East and West Knoyle are right there, too. There is a good possibility that our Thomas GRAY and Mary could have been married right there in East Knoyle. Besides Mere, the next-highest concentration of GRAY's is in Hill Deverill, Longbridge Deverill, West Knoyle, followed then by Ansty and Great Wishford. Also have extracted from 1871 CENSUS West Knoyle, and from 1841 CENSUS: Heytesbury, Hill Deverill, East Knoyle, and Fonthill Gifford.
SOURCES AVAILABLE:
-- Other FHLC notes on Pertwood are: Taxation: Land tax assessments in
Pertwood 1773-1876, FHL 1,278,868:20. Church records 1840-1918 (marriages) FHL 1,239,329:31 (check just in case Gray's were md. here) and baptisms 1813-1923 on FHL 1,526,667:8. These are parish registers. BTs are probably the ones you've seen on FHL 1,279,419:6-10, including baptisms, marriages, burials 1608-1631, 1718-1728, 1787-1842; baptisms and burials 1843-1880. It is possible, I suppose, that our Thomas was actually born here in Pertwood instead of at Hill Deverill, since he would have been born 1786 or 1787 and information for 1786 in Pertwood is non-existent. (NOTE: Is this BTs or parish registers? I believe we have both of them now in SLC).
BELOW HERE IS ANOTHER VERSION OF HIS NOTES. IT SHOULD BE COMPARED WITH ALL INFORMATION ABOVE THIS POINT TO GET THE EXTRA INFORMATION IN IT THAT IS DEFINITELY IN IT.
BIRTH NOTES: Born between 25 Jul 1786 and 23 Jul 1788 approximately (from of calculated birth from death date).
OCCUPATIONS/JOBS: Labourer
R E S E A R C H L O G
DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION/IDEAS:
-- Those married in Pertwood from other parishes came chiefly from Longbridge Deverill and East Knoyle. People who had children baptized there lived at Wincanton (Somerset), Frome (Somerset), Longbridge Deverill, Heytesbury, Mon(c)kton Deverill, and Brixton Deverill. This may be a clue to general moving patterns - Shon R. Edwards.
IDEAS/SOURCES CHECKED:
SOURCES TO SEARCH: Look in Mere, West Knoyle, and East Knoyle. The GRAY's are most populous in this particular area, and we have at least a small tie to East Knoyle (This person's child died in 1835 after the death of both parents and at the age of 17; he was living at East Knoyle at the time).
-- On birth: Checked 30 surrounding parishes to find any Thomas GRAY's born: GIVE LIST.
-- On marriage: Check for marriage records in the area which show a Thomas Gray from Hill Deverill marrying a Mary at just about the right time. Children's death records are useless. They are not supposed to have parents' names. Am checking for marriage records now (10/95), but may have missed a few possible years (1800-1805), although did also check much of this. I'm not sure, but this maybe should be checked again, both with PRs and BTs. Looked about 35 parishes surrounding, nix. Though East and West Knoyle, 2 parishes extremely close to Pertwood aren't available in SLC (Also, extremely important about this particular fact, is that one of this person's children lived in East Knoyle at the time of his death while a young boy, not long after the death of his parents.). I know the records exist, because I looked at them in Wiltshire. These two need to be checked for Thomas Gray and Mary
-- There was no Thomas Gray born in Warminster (where he supposedly married his wife) in the correct period, so although he (possibly) resided there later, he wasn't born there, and thus, could have possibly been our "man" from Hill Deverill - Shon R. Edwards.
-- Look for a family bible. Since James was older than John, perhaps it would be in James' family in England. Try to find the descendants of James there. It would be tough - Shon R. Edwards.
-- Did this family have any other children anywhere else? This might be a worthy check, though IGI parent checks in 1995 yielded nothing. Filter to Wiltshire, Dorset, and Somerset especially. They seem old enough to have been married even as early as 1806. She seems to be six years his senior. These ages were calculated from burial dates, though hers was obviously messed up (see her notes). It may be necessary to make a more careful check. Check marriage 1806-1816, at least - Shon R. Edwards.
-- The kids would have been, at the oldest, 16, 14, 14, and 9 years old, at their last parent's death. They would all have been juveniles. In England, there were likely no guardian records; they probably just went to a relative and lived there. Possibilities would be grandparents, uncles or aunts. Later on, James and John end up in Newton St. Loe and Corston, Somerset, respectively. This might be an indication that the entire family was in this area of Somerset. Also, John's possible "twin," Joseph, died in East Knoyle, Wilts, in 1835. They may have all lived with a relative in East Knoyle. If so, the only record of them there might be marriage records. Since the couple was usually married in the woman's parish, Ann might be the only one married in West Knoyle. If the 1881 ever gets computerized and Ann ever lived long enough, she might be found there. Her two surviving brothers seemed to live to a good old age. Other church records besides marriage would not be available to us - Shon R. Edwards.
N.B. - Searched 1881 census on computer, didn't find any Ann in England born in Pertwood - SRE, 2000?
-- See if someone you know can go check in Trowbridge on this Thomas GRAY's marriage to Mary in some of the parishes we don't have access to here. Maybe Susan Paul in Westbury could do that. If not, it may be possible to have Headley Burridge do it (that may be even closer, since he is right there in Trowbridge). Have them check Zeals, East Knoyle, West Knoyle, and Mere. Under MOVING PATTERNS, also see note that starts, "In order to get..." - Shon R. Edwards.
-- Look for traces of him through his other son, James, our uncle, perhaps through his church or civil marriage records.
LINKS:
-- There is one other Thomas GRAY born in the vicinity in another parish, but he didn't fall within the range of the calculated birthdate, as this one did. He could still be the one also. This link not 100% sure, but of the thirty surrounding parishes, the only Thomas GREY found who was born exactly within the correct time period (calculated from death age), came from Hill Deverill parish. There is one other parish, even closer to Pertwood, with many GREY's, Berwick St. Leonard's, but records are poor there, and I may have missed somthing or the years themselves may have been missing. The records of these 30 parishes were original Wiltshire County parish records from County Records Office, Trowbridge, Wiltshire. There was only one other Thomas GREY in these surrounding 30 parishes who even came close to the right age, being one year off. The parishes which were searched were:
PARISHES SEARCHED FOR BIRTH/MARRIAGE:
Pertwood, Chicklade, Hindon, West Knoyle (2), East Knoyle, Tisbury (Grays), Salisbury St. Edmund (no Grays), Warminster St. Denys, Warminster St., Bishopstrow, Norton Bavant, Mere (Grays), Sutton Veny, Longbridge Deverill (Thomas, son of Edward and Susannah Gray b. 21 May 1786, just 1 mo. outside of calculated birth age from death - very possible it's correct), Hill Deverill (Grays) (Thomas, son of James and Grace Gray, b. 21 Dec. 1786), Brixton Deverill, Kingston Deverill, Mon(c)kton Deverill, Berwick St. Leonard (marriages only, but 1813-1815 missing) (lots of Grays, so good possibility), Berwick St. James (marriages only) (no Grays), Fonthill Gifford (Grays) (marriages only), Boyton, Heytesbury (marriages only), Sherrington (no Grays), Stockton (no Grays), Chilmark (not listed, go to original records, book not on microfiche (not sure if this was actually checked in Wiltshire Records Office), Zeals (Mere) (after 1840), Sedgehill (no Grays), Upton Scudamore (go to original records, book not on microfiche (not sure if this was actually checked in Wiltshire Records Office), Corsley. NOTE THAT BERWICK ST: LOENARD BTS AND PARISH RECORDS ARE NOW AVAILABLE IN SALT LAKE.
-- Found his supposed marriage on the IGI. This needs to be verified in the records. It seems likely, since it is probably the only Thomas GRAY married to a Mary in the area and at the right time (The rest of Warminster was NOT checked; this was just found on IGI). Only problem is her birth compared to the known info for this man's actual wife. See her notes for the confusing story on her birthdate Shon R. Edwards.
MOVING PATTERNS/IDEAS:
One other parish to check and I'm not sure if it has been checked yet, that is just full of Grey's is possibly Mere. Just double-check. I am still fairly confident that this is our line, however. 12 (microfiche?) pp of Grey's in Wiltshire census 1881, 8 from Dorset, 4.5? from Somerset - Shon R. Edwards.
-- In order to get an idea of where the GREY/GRAY names come from, I have extracted all of them from the 1851 census for southwest Wilts, part of north Dorset, and part of east Somerset. The line I have extracted from in Wilts is pretty much as follows: A line running from the northern borders of Corsely and Upton Scudamore eastward (excluding Edington, including Imber and Chittern), southward at Chitterne, eastward again at Fisherton de la Mere (excluding Waddington and Winterbourne Stoke), from there southward including Berwick St. James and Stapleford, excluding Wilsford, Woodford, Bemerton, Salisbury, (but including Netherhampton), Stratford Tony, Martin, and Damerham, but including all portions of s.w. Wilts. within those boundaries. In Dorset, I extracted all parishes from Bourton on the north, going southeast to Ashmore along and everything in between near the border only (i.e., excluding East Stour, Stour Provost, Todber, Buckhorn Weston, Kington Magna, etc.). In the southern part of that area only did I check parishes not bordering Wilts., namely Compton Abbas, Fontmell Magna, Sutton Waldron, Iverne Minster, East Orchard, Margaret Marsh, Farningham?, and West Orchard. In Somerset, I checked parishes of Wincanton, Bruton, Pitcombe, Shepton Mantague, North Cheriton, Maperton, Corston, Saltford, and Stanton Prior. In all of this area, the greatest concentration of GRAY's was in the Mere area. East and West Knoyle are right there, too. There is a good possibility that our Thomas GRAY and Mary could have been married right there in East Knoyle. Besides Mere, the next-highest concentration of GRAY's is in Hill Deverill, Longbridge Deverill, West Knoyle, followed then by Ansty and Great Wishford - Shon R. Edwards, 1988?
SOURCES AVAILABLE:
-- Other FHLC notes on Pertwood are: Taxation: Land tax assessments in
Pertwood 1773-1876, FHL 1,278,868:20. Church records 1840-1918 (marriages) FHL 1,239,329:31 (check just in case Gray's were md. here) and baptisms 1813-1923 on FHL 1,526,667:8. These are parish registers. BTs are probably the ones you've seen on FHL 1,279,419:6-10, including baptisms, marriages, burials 1608-1631, 1718-1728, 1787-1842; baptisms and burials 1843-1880. It is possible, I suppose, that our Thomas was actually born here in Pertwood instead of at Hill Deverill, since he would have been born 1786 or 1787 and information for 1786 in Pertwood is non-existent. (NOTE: Is this BTs or parish registers? I believe we have both of them now in SLC - SRE) - Shon R. Edwards.
