B Correspondence with Evangelisches Zentralarchiv in Berlin, Kirchenbuchstelle, Jebensstrasse 3, 10623 Berlin, Germany, phone 49-30-3-10-10-0, dated 25 Jun 1996.
M Skt. Nikolai, Spandau, Brandenburg, Preussen, Germany parish records, FHL 1,271,066, p. 410, index, vol. 3, pg. 44. Also, FHL 1,271,037, p. 44 (end).
NOTES/LOG:
-- IN A GAZETEER, I FOUND A WITTENBERG EXTREMELY NEAR SPANDAU. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THIS FAMILY IS ALSO FROM THE SPANDU PARISH, AND NOT NECESSARILY FROM THE WITTENBERG, SACHSEN, AREA. THIS IS NOT VERY LIKELY, THOUGH, SINCE THE MARRIAGE RECORD OF THIS PERSON SAYS HIS FATHER IS FROM "WITTENBERG IN SACHSEN," WHICH AT THAT TIME WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE KINGDOM OF SAXONY, WHEREAS THE SPANDAU WOULD NOT - SRE 1996?
-- Check death indexes, Wilhelmina Fridrica, Carl Fridrich, and August Ferdinand especilly - SRE 1996?
-- Checked death indexes, found stuff on both Wiesenthal and Rodel. Need to
double-check all. Also, look up Wiesenthal in birth index. I believe her
husband was apprenticed to her father as a wigmaker - SRE 1996?
-- Wittenberg is in the Diocese Wittenberg, Konststorialbezirk Magdeburg. Tauf-, Heirats-, and Todesbuecher start 1560, 1560, and 1563. There is also a Kommunion-Weinrechnungsbuch from 1533 available. Info from 943; B4m; v. 30 - SRE 1996?
-- Checked citizens' records, Künstler (see Innungssachen, quite a bit below) records for Wittenberg; it didn't look like they would yield any info on his father whatsoever. Best bet is to try looking into birth records from churches for genealogy. Janet knows a person from Saxony, says she might help us do this genealogy - SRE 1996?
-- RECHECK THESE CITIZENSHIP RECORDS, AS PARISH REGISTERS YIELDED CONFLICTING INFORMATION - SRE 1 Jan 2001.
-- Searched index of wills for Spandau (Testamentsakten, 1685-1891; Spandau (Brandenburg). Amtsgericht), FHL 578047 and didn't find any occurrence of the surname REDEL/RÖDEL - SRE 30 Dec 2000.
-- Searched "Berliner Kunsthandwerker vom 15. bis 20. Jahrhudnert" by K. F. Delfs, but found no occurrence of the surname REDEL - SRE 30 Dec 2000.
-- Had research done in Wittenberg parish done. See this person's father's notes for information - SRE 1 Jan 2001.
-- POSSIBLY ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO CINCH THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THIS PERSON AND HIS ACTUAL FATHER IS TO CHECK A BÜRGERBUCH FOR SPANDAU. There is a Bürgerbuch ("Das Spandauer Bürgerbuch von 1600 bis 1734 und die Spandauer Neubürgerliste von 1579 bis 1596" by Ingeborg Kolb, FHL INTL 943.2 B4st No. 1, Naustadt an der Aisch, Germany: Verlag Degener & Co., Inhaber Gerhard Gessner, 1971). The original was destroyed in WWII, but info was transcribed previous to that and later published. It is unknown if later books for Spandau were made, are still extant, or were destroyed. Write to Spandau city to find out if a later book exists. This person would likely be in it. During this time period, much information in the Bürgerbuch was often listed about each citizen, including parentage and place of birth. This would be another check to see if Johann Christian REDEL or Gottfried Wilhlem REDEL is actually this person's father - SRE 1 Jan 2001.
-- Checked (Berlin wills, which may or may not include Spandau) Kammergericht Testaments (Findkartei), Ab-Zy, FHL 6109218. Didn't find any Redel at the proper time who would have been ours - SRE 12 Jan 2001.
-- I wrote to Berlin, but never received a response. The alternative is to have a researcher (possibly Heidrun Linke), check on Bürgerbücher, just to make sure. This would definitely cinch or disprove it -- SRE 7 Aug 2001.
-- See also this person's father's notes, for more information on connection to this person -- SRE 7 Aug 2001.
-- Checked Bürgerbücher again. DID find the only other.
-- Don't have a calculated age for him. But his birth in Wittenberg is 2 yrs. before his estimated date at marriage would have been. Also, am having Heidrun Linke look for this guy and his father-in-law in a Bürgerbuch or other source in Berlin - SRE 1 Oct 2001.
-- Wittenberg is in the Diocese Wittenberg, Konststorialbezirk Magdeburg. Tauf-, Heirats-, and Todesbuecher start 1560, 1560, and 1563. There is also a Kommunion-Weinrechnungsbuch from 1533 available. Info from 943; B4m; v. 30 - SRE 1997.
-- Had research done by priest, Ulrich Beyer, Evangel. Stadtkirchengemeinde, Jüdenstraße 35, 06886 Lutherstadt Wittenberg, GERMANY. Correspondence is dated 26 Feb 1998 from a request originally written 26 May 1997.
-- Priest doing research in 1998 checked for Rödel, Redel, Regel, found many entries, but didn't find any baptisms from 1740-1780, marriages from 1750-1780, or burials from 1715-1780 - SRE 1997.
-- Although it was not necessarily our relative, a Redel had a child Gottfried Wilhelm (same name as our person) and was a bricklayer/mason. Also, another Redel, whose wife was a witness in the marriage of this Redel person found by the preacher, was a bricklayer - SRE 1997.
-- This last note should be updated. More information was sent to SRE by the priest, Beyer, in 1998. It is no longer as doubtful as to the connection. Johann Christian REDEL had two families, one from 1718-1728. His wife committed suicide in 1751, and he remarried in the same year. The following year, he had a son Gottfried Wilhelm REDEL. Even though the marriage of Gottfried Wilhelm REDEL Jr. stated that he was the 2nd son of GWR Sr., the records show he wasn't. However, JCR had lost all of his sons by both marriages except two by the time of GWR Jr.'s marriage, in which he was listed as the 2nd son. One died later (but before the marriage of GWR Jr.), at least, his name is the same: Andreas Gottlieb Rödel, and apparently, no other person in the parish records had the same name. He also was probably the Andreas Gottlieb RÖDEL, whose wife was listed as a witness in JCR's second marriage. It is most likely that he was JCR's son, which would have left GWR as the second LIVING SON of JCR, one from his previous marriage (Johann Gottfried REDEL), and then GWR would be the 1st son of JCR from his second marriage, but the second oldest living son. However, this would not explain why in GWR Jr.'s marriage record, it lists his father's name as being the same as his. The priest seemed to think that the informant for this information on the marriage record was provided by the bride's father, so it could possibly be thrown into doubt. Not sure why this was suspected. If true, there is a fairly good probability that JCR is GWR's father. If GWR was the informant,and recording priest made no errors, probably JCR is not the father - SRE 1998.
-- There is also A Wilhelm RÖDEL who had a child in 1723. This could also be our person, but it does seem a bit early. WR was an army surgeon. He may have had two occupations (mar of GWR Sr.'s son in Berlin says dad was a bricklayer) - SRE 1998.
-- Searched "Berliner Kunsthandwerker vom 15. bis 20. Jahrhudnert" by K. F. Delfs, but found no occurrence of the surname REDEL - SRE 30 Dec 2000.
-- Searched index of wills for Spandau (Testamentsakten, 1685-1891; Spandau (Brandenburg). Amtsgericht), FHL 578047 and didn't find any occurrence of the surname REDEL - SRE 30 Dec 2000.
-- Searched the Bürgerbücher for Wittenberg, FHL 1646900:2 and 1646901:1. On 1646901:1 (checked 1751-1810), there was an index, so checked this first. Didn't find any known persons, but did find:
RÖDER, Johann Gottfried, Schumacher, den 9. Juni 1781, etc.
RETTEL, Johann Gottfiried, K... den 24. Aug 1826, etc.
On 1646900:2, though, did find:
RÖTEL, Andr. Gottlieb, ein MAURER und hieseiger Bürger Sohn had den hiesigen Bürgers Eid... erlangt...8 Nov 1749, p. 255.
This was very revealing. For one thing, it is probably the son of JCR listed in the birth records of the parish, and the same one whose wife was a witness at JCR's second marriage (notice also that he is a bricklayer, just as JCR was). Also, it states that his father was a citizen. I wasn't sure if a Mauergeselle (bricklayer apprentice/journeyman) would be a citizen. Experts at the FHL said probably he would have to be a master bricklayer to get citizenship, but it depended on the area. In these Bürgerbücher from Wittenberg, though, many journeymen were listed as citizens, so this would pose no problem in this regard. Also, since AGR, the son of JCR, died in 1751, two years after receiving citizenship, this person still fits the scenario.
Other REDEL's were also found:
Herr Christian Gottfried RIEDEL, ein hier? gebürtiger Bürger und ... 11 Mar 1741 (RELATIONSHIP?), p. unknown.
Jacob RIEGEL...18 Feb 1731, p. 213.
Mstr. Christoph RIEDL, bisheriger Bürger und Zimgiesser yu Belzig wohnen alhier ein Haus gekauft...17 Jun 1728. COULD THIS BE A BROTHER TO JCR? He was previously a citizen before coming to Wittenberg.
Christoph RIEDL, aus Oberlichtenau bey Dresden gebürtig, hat den Bürgereid...3 Nov 1712. COULD THIS ALSO BE A BROTHER TO JCR? Oberlichenau in German auto atlas, p. 116 Of41, near Kamenz.
Christian K/Redel ein Crahmer aus Dresden hat den...26 Jun 1711.
NOTE THAT NO GOTTFRIED WILHELM REDEL WAS LISTED HERE. THE GWR WHO WAS THE SON OF JCR EITHER DIDN'T BECOME A CITIZEN OR LEFT TOWN.
Didn't find JCR, although the records state that he was a citizen. He must have come from elsewhere, since his birth couldn't be found. His calculated birth date is 1691. Probably he was was born, became a citizen, and married elsewhere. Is it possible he could also have had other children in the other locality? If so, that might debunk the theory of his being our relative, especially if other living sons are found (GWR's marriage says he was the 2nd son of his father, which I suppose, may or may not be true).
In toto, searched 1714-1800 and part of 1713. Starting p. 75 of 1713, earlier records could be searched, although probably the most important ones for this family have already been searched -- SRE 3 Aug 2001.
-- So far, each piece of evidence shows that JCR was the father of Gottfried Wilhelm REDEL except the actual name. Have researcher check Spandau Bürgerbücher or other source she knows of to try to cinch it either way. Hopefully there will be a Spandau record showing GWR as a son of a JCR. Our person would probably have been in the Bürgerbuch for Spandau around the 1770's. In this time period, parents were definitely being listed. Pros and cons for argument of GWR being JCR's son:
CONS:
-- The marriage record of our Gottfried Wilhelm REDEL in Spandau says his father's name is also Gottfried Wilhelm REDEL, not Johann Christian REDEL.
PROS:
-- Our GWR in marriage record says his dad is from Wittenberg. JCR is the only REDEL appearing in the parish registers that is even close to fitting the bill (see research reports of prish priest).
-- There is a GWR born in Wittenberg with a birth date within two years of our GWR of Spandau, based on his marriage date -- basically a perfect fit.
-- JCR is a bricklayer journeyman, just as GWR's marriage record states.
-- JCR is deceased by time of son's marriage, which is also correct (JCR died 1771, Wittenberg parish registers).
-- GWR is the second living son of JCR from Wittenberg. All others died. It is not sure which son was left besides GWR, but it would have to have been one from the first marriage (the other one from the second marriage we have record of died young also), and we have death records, whether by name or not, for all other sons of JRC by the time of the marriage of GWR in Spandau. Since the two unnamed children of JCR's who died, died in 1724 and 1729, neither one of these could have been the GWR born to JRC. The first mentioned death could be either Johann Christian or Daniel. The second son who died could be either Johann Christian, Daniel, or Johann Gottfried, leaving Gottfried Wilhelm as a definite survivor.
-- Andreas Gottlieb REDEL, son of JCR is in Bürgerbücher of Wittenberg, and is listed as an apprentice bricklayer, just as JCR was. He was alive in 1749, but died two years later, leaving (supposedly) JCR only two living sons left.
-- The absence of a GWR in the Bürgerbücher of Wittenberg is quite conspicuous, since Andreas Gottlieb, supposed brother, as well as JCR, supposed father, were both citizens. Probably the GWR listed in this parish left.
-- GWR doesn't appear any more in parish registers of Wittenberg either, indicating that he probably left there.
-- There was never a death record for a GWR Sr. in Wittenberg, which one would expect, if the Spandau marriage record said GWR Jr.'s "deceased father was from Wittenberg." There is only a death for a JCR. Again, he may have died elsewhere, but it's just one more circumstancial piece of evidence to think about.
LOG/NOTES (cont.):
-- In other words, so far, every piece of evidence points to JCR being the father of the GWR from Spandau except that the father's name is wrong in the Spandau marriage book. The priest from Wittenbeg, who did research for this family, believes that this is not at all uncommon, since the bride's father would probably have been the informant. I'm not sure about this, but the possibility should be checked out, since that would be one more piece of evidence either for or against -- SRE 7 Aug 2001.
-- Next idea is to check the tax rolls of Wittenberg (Schoßbücher, tax books, a tax of 1% put on property), to see if GWR shows up there. If he does early on, but disappears later, that would be even more evidence for him having left. Even more important than this is checking the Bürgerbücher of Spandau. If books exist, and JCR is mentioned as his father, we have definitely found the right connection. Have a researcher check it out -- SRE 7 Aug 2001.
-- Searched for Johann Christian Redel, his children, and other possible relatives in Schoßbücher, Steuerregister, 1556-1895. I checked everything between 1797 and 1782 (except 1751-1758 was just a check for Samuel Rödel). Also checked 1673-1696 for entries of Samuel Rödel.
-- 1772-1785 on FHL 1646890:1, p. 117, no. 30, Gottlieb Rödel, Mauergeselle (by this time, Andreas Gottlieb son of Johan Christian, was dead, so couldn't have beeen him).
-- 1775-1782 on FHL 16468990:2, Gottlieb Rödel, p. 117, no. 30. Also, Samuel Rödel, p. 209, no. 20. Johann Adam _, Fuhrmann, p. 280, no. 77.
-- 1759-1766, FHL 1646889, p. 61 ( or 41 or 91), no. 80. Frau Rath... Catharina Riedelin erben, etc.; p. 116, no. ? Gottlieb Rödel, Mauergeselle; p. 210, no. 40 Samuel Rödel; p. 312, no. 84 Christian David Riedl.
-- 1713-1722, FHL 1646884, frame 219, p. 215, no. 40 Samuel Rödel;
-- 1723-1732, FHL 1646885, p. 208, frame 217, no. 40 Samuel Rodel (father of, or brother to, Johann Christian Redel?); frame 261, p. 252, no. 122-123. Christian Rüdell...Christoph Rüdel.
-- 1733-1742, FHL 1646886, frame 60, p. 50, no. 10, Christian Rüdel, Bauer; frame 223, p. 202, no. 40, Samuel Rödel; frame 337?, p. 308, no. 84, Christian Rüdell; frame 530, p. 497, Herr Christian gottfried Redel (paid less tax because was paied bz official in his jurisdiction), ...d. 28 Feb 1841.
-- 1743-1750, FHL 1646887, frame 60,p. 54, no. 10 Christian Riedel; frame 165, p. 189, no, 170 Christian Riedel...ietza Christian gottfried Riedel; frame 217, p. 211, no. 40 Samuel Rödel; frames 325-326, p. 3318-319, nos 84-86. Hr...Christian Riedel, Christian David Riedel, Hr. dr. Johann Christian Riedell (probably not ours?); frame 501, p. 490 Christian Gottfried Riedel.
-- 1697-1712, FHL 1646883, item 1, frame 132, p. 122, no. 49 Samuel Rödel; item 2, frame 225, p. 218, no. 40, Samuel Rödel, Wittwer; frame 539 p. 520 Christian Rudel, Kramer and Christoph Rudel
-- 1685-1696, FHL 1646882, frame 216,p. 105, no. 40 Samuell Rödell; FRAME? OUR JOHANN CHRISTIAN REDEL, 1685-1690, paid all 5 years.
-- 1751-1758, FHL 1646888, frame 212, p. 206, no. 40 Samuel Rödel
-- 1679-1684, FHL 1647001, item 2, frame 115, no. 40, Elias Wedelicks Witbe 1679-1682. Samuel Rödel takes over propertz in 1683, MENTIONS NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT WHERE HE CAME FROM, SO DON'T KNOW IF HE IS CONNECTED TO OUR REDELS OR NOT.
-- 1673-1678, FHL 1647001, frame 111, p. 104, no. 40, elias Wedelick (person owning property before Samuel Rödel). No mention of Samuel.
-- STILL TO CHECK IN THIS RECORD ARE KATASTERBUCH 1688; FHL 1659609. Try to see where Samuel Rödel came from. He bought property in Wittenberg in 1683. Also, Catasta Rechnung, 1702, 1706-11, Bd. 46, FHL 1659617 -- SRE 10 Aug 2001.
-- Checked Innngssachen (guild record) 1420-1855 for Wittenberg. Found nothing. FHL 1646822 (Künstler und Handwerker, 1420-1748) only contains articles and guidelines, i.e., Innungsakten. Also checked FHL 1659606, item 3, for actual lists of members. Checked Maurer. There was only one -- Aug 2001.
-- Checked Bürgerbücher, 1627-1908. Gottfried Wilhelm Redel was conspicuously absent. Johann Christian Redel was a citizen (though not on Wittenberg lists), and so was his son, Andreas Gottlieb:
-- FHL 1646901:1 Röder, Johann Gottfried, Schumacher, den 9 Juni 1781.
-- Same, Rettel, Johann Gottfried, K.., den 24 Aug 1826.
-- Checked index to 1810, nothing.
-- FHL 1646900:2, p. 255 ANDREAS GOTTLIEB RÖTEL EIN MAURER UND HIESIGER BÜRGER SOHN HAT D. HIESIGER BÜRGER... ERLANGTAN DEN...BÜRGER...8 NOV 1749 (just before his death).
-- A Geselle in Wittenberg definitely had citizenship.
-- Christoph Riedel... aus Oberlichtenaug, Dresden geburtig, hat den Bürgereid...3 Nov 1712 (Oberlichtenau bei Dresden, road atlas p. 116 Of41).
-- Christian R/Kedel ein Crahmer aus Dressden...26 Jun 1711.
So found the son of Johann Christian Redel: Andreas Gottlieb RÖTEL. Father listed as citizen -- Aug 2001.
-- Checked some sources from Gerichtsbücher, Handelsbücher, Vormundschaften, Güterverkaufbriefe 1377-1820. Checked Vormundschaften (guardian records), FHL 1646900:1. Checked Jun 1772-Jul 1773 (also through p. 368, frame 743, unless this is the same date). Nothing. Could this be worth further study? He would have been 19 when his father died and 20 when mother died. Not sure of technically what constituted a minor during this time -- 13 Aug 2001.
-- Write to Ulrich Beyer, Evangel. Stadtkirchengemeinde, Jüdenstraße 35, 06886 Lutherstadt Wittenberg, GERMANY again for the following information: marriage of Johann Christian REDEL and Christina ca. 1618. It may show origin place of JCR. Also need to as him for name of child of JCR, which we don't have, but which, according to p. 9 of Ulrich's 26 Feb 1998 report, is in a register: "Nach dem alph. Register, soll Seite 782 die Taufe eines weiteren Kindes v. J. Chr. Redel stehen, es ist aber weder 780-789, noch 827, 872 (oder 287 und 278) etwas zu finden." Also, write to have him check a bit earlier for Johann Christian Redel's birth or other possible siblings in the 1680's-1710's - SRE, 16 Oct 2001.
-- Did this person go to Denmark with his son, perhaps his whole family? Check for his death, or his other children's marriages there, just as his son Heinrich Ludwig was married there -- SRE, 16 Oct 2001.
-- Just found a note that I had re-seached Testamentsakten (1685-1891) for Spandau. On FHL 578047, p. 256, Riedell, Lftd. Nr. 258, Lager Nr. 6: Johann Altsitzer u. Frau Anna Dorothea geb. Bug..., vormals Witwe Bötzer von We/u/astermale. Sounds like it's off, but wanted to record it just in case -- SRE, 15 Nov 2001.
-- Found his wife's death record in Spandau, which was exactly accurate as to her age, and hoped that finding GWR's death might help me to know if the one born in 1752 in Wittenberg is the same person as ours in Berlin. Couldn't find. Checked index of St. Nikolai (evangelisch = Lutheran) parish, Spandau, checked also parish line by line, 1792-1802. Also checked St. Johannis (evangelisch-reformiert = reformed) parish, Spandau same years. Found nothing. It's too bad, since it would add an imporant piece of evidence to our puzzle. These years were searched, because he had his last child in 1793 and his wife died in 1802, and by this time, she was listed as a widow. It's interesting to note that in his wife's death record, she is not listed as Friederica Sophia Elisabeth Wiesenthal, but as Dorothea Friderica Wiesenthal. Also, GWR, her husband, is listed as Ernst Redel. In the death index, he is listed with his family, and his name as Gottfried Wilhelm Redel, with Ernst penciled in just above. Dorothea Friderica (a.k.a. Friederica Sophia Elisabeth) is definitely his wife, though. This type of thing makes me think all the more that our GWR b. 1752 in Wittenberg could be the right person - SRE, 26 Apr 2002.
-- MERGED MY GOTTFRIED WILHELM REDEL (B. CA. 1754) Bap: 14 Sep 1996 PROVO, End 13 Dec 1996 PROVO, WITH THE ONE FOUND IN WITTENBERG (B. 5 May 1752).
-- Letter to Spandau city library I wrote to try to find out if there are Bürgerbücher after mid 1700's:
"Shon R. Edwards, A.G., M.A.
21973 N. 69th Ave.
Glendale, AZ 85310
U.S.A.
sre-genealogy@juno.com
den 27. April 2002
Stadtbibliothek Spandau
Carl-Schurz-Str. 13
13597 Berlin
DEUTSCHLAND
Sehr geehrter Herr oder geehrte Dame,
Ich suche Informationen über zwei Männer, die aus Spandau stammen. Der erste heißt Gottfried Wilhelm Redel. Er wäre wahrscheinlich in einem Bürgerbuch gewesen (ich habe in den Kirchenbüchern schon geforscht), und ich frage mich, ob Sie ein Bürgerbuch für Spandau haben. Es gibt Bürgerbücher für Spandau früher als 1734 (Der Spandauer Bürgerbuch von 1600 bis 1734 und die Spandauer Neubürgerliste von 1579 bis 1596 und Bürger- und Einwohnerkataster der Stadt Spandau von 1723), aber sie sind zu früh für mich. Ich brauche ein späteres Bürgerbuch, oder eine andere Quelle, die mir in dieser Zeit den Namen seines Vaters geben würde. Er war in 1752 geboren (deshalb wäre er im Bürgerbuch ca. 1775-1800 gewesen), war “Peruquenmacher” und seine Religion war evangelisch.
Ich suche auch den Vater seiner Frau, evangelisch, auch “Peruquenmacher”, Ernst August WIESENTHAL, geb. ca. 1725. Hoffentlich erscheint er auch im Bürgerbuch ca. 1750-1775. Ich suche seinen Geburtsort u. -datum, sowie den Namen seines Vaters.
Haben Sie so ein Bürgerbuch, oder wissen Sie ob eines überhaupt existiert? Wenn nicht, könnten Sie vielleicht diesen Brief an jemanden geben, der/die mir helfen könnte, z.B.jemandem vom Stadtarchiv Spandau?
Bitte schicken Sie mir einen vollständigen Auszug aus den Bürgerbüchern für diese Personen. Ich möchte auch Fotokopien von Ihren Urkunden erhalten, wenn das möglich ist. Ich lege zwei Coupons bei, die Sie auf Ihrem Postamt gegen Luftpostmarken eintauschen können. Bitte sagen Sie mir, was ich für Ihre Dienstleistung zu bezahlen habe. Ich danke Ihnen im voraus sehr viel für Ihre Hilfe.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Shon R. Edwards, A.G., M.A."
Reply by e-mail received from C. Clemens, Stadtbibliothek Spandau, c.clemens.bibliothek@ba-spd.verwalt-berlin.de on 22 May 2002:
"An Herrn Shon R. Edwards, A.G., M.A.
Sehr geehrter Herr Edwards,
für Ihren Brief vom 27.4., in dem Sie um Informationen aus Bürgerbüchern
bitten, danken wir. Wir haben den Brief an unser Stadtarchiv
weitergeleitet und hoffen, dass Sie dort die gewünschten Auskünfte
erhalten.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Clemens, Leiterin der Stadtbibliothek Spandau"
And finally a response from the Archiv des Stadtgeschichtlichen Museums Spandau, Am Luliusturm, 13599 Berlin, Germany:
"Herrn Shon R. Edwards, A.G., M.A.
21973 N. 69th Ave.
Glendale, AZ 85310
U.S.A.
4.7.2002
Dutchwahl 354944ß287, Fax 354944ß296
Sehr geehrter Herr Edwards,
Ihre Anfrage vom 27.4.2002 wurde von der Stadtbibliothek an uns weitergeleitet.
Wir können Ihnen bie Ihren Forschungen leider nur bedings weiterzuhelfen, da die Quellenlage sehr schwiereg ist. Es gibt nämlich kein späteres Bürgerbuch als die beiden Editionen des Bürgerbuches bis 1734 und des Bürgerkatasters von 1723. Die Bürgeraufnahmen nach 1734 sind sonst nur noch in den Kämmerreirechnungen enthalten, die aber nicht lückenlos überliefert sind. Außerdem werden bei der Bürgeraufnahme nicht die Daten angegeben, die Sie erwarten, sondern nur der Name des neuen Bürgers, das Datum der Bürgeraufnahme, der Beruf des neuen Bürgers und die Hühe des bezahlten Bürgergeldes. Wir haben die Kämmerreirechnungen von 1749/50 bis 1775/56 durchgesehen, aber den von Ihnen gesuchten Perückenmacher Ernst August Wiesenthal nicht finden können. In der Kämmerreirechnung von 1755/56 ist allerdings ein abgedankter Soldat names Ernst Heinrich Wiesenthal aufgefürhrt, der am 3. Januar 1756 das Bürgerrecht erwarb und dafür vier Groschen zahlte. Weitere Angeben werden zu ihm, wie gesagt, nicht gemacht. Wenn Sie diese Spur weiterverfolgen wollen, müssten Sie zunächts das betreffende Regement sowie dan das zugehörige Garnisonkirchenbuch ermitteln.
Die Suche nach Gottfried Wilhelm Redel in den Kämmereirechnungen von 1749/50 bis 1802/03, die fast vollständig überliefert sind, blieb leider ebenfalls ergebnislos. Überhaupt war unter den neuen Bürgern nur ein Perückenmacher anderen Names zu finden (1800/01). Das bedeutet, dass in Spandau wohl schlechte Voraussetzungen für die Niederlassung einses Angehöregen dieses Gewerbes bestanden. Die von Ihnen Gesuchten Personen müssen nicht unbedingt in Spandau das Bürgerrecht erworben haben, auch wenn sie dort geboren wurden. Möglicherweise kommt auch Berlin oder ein anderer Ort in Frage.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Im Auftrag
Pohl
(Dr. Joachim Pohl)"
This letter basically says that there are no actual Bürgerbücher after 1734. They are in the Kämmerreirechnungen (financial records) after that point. (The original Bürgerbücher were destroyed in WWII, and the two they mention that I have also seen, are copies. If later books existed, they were probably destoyed, too), but there are holes in these records. They checked 1749/50 to 1775/56 [sic? 76], but didn't find Ernst August Wiesenthal. But in 1755/56, a former solder by the name of Ernst Heinrich Wiesenthal is entered, who got citizenship 3 Jan 1756 and paid 4 pennies for it. No further references are made to him. If we wanted to follow this clue, we would have to find his regiment and the Garrison church book associated with it. Also, a search was done in the Kämmereirechnungen from 1749/50 to 1802/03 for Gottfried Wilhelm Redel, which have been preserved almost in totality, but which didn't give a clue either. There was only a wigmaker by another name in 1800/01. Also, in these financial records, the name of the father is not given, as it was in the citizenship books. The conclusion was that these people must have received their citizenship elsewhere, such as Berlin, or other place
N.B. - I have checked Berlin citizenship books - nothing. Also a researcher in Germany, Heidrun Linke did the same and didn't find anything -- SRE, 20 Jul 2002.
-- Check Copenhagen wills indexes, to see if he came there with his child/children. This might give further clues about his origin -- SRE, 27 Jul 2002.
-- Checked "Register to Copenhagens porbate records" with subject heading of "Denmark, København, København - Probate records - indexes." This is not an index per se, but just a guide to finding the records. It may be worth checking some day, though it is very lengthy, and it would be hard to determine which ones ancestors would have been in -- SRE, 30 Jul 2002.
-- Checked 1801 census index to Copenhagen and didn't find any occurrences of our Bolvig family or of Helene's husband, Henrich Ludwig Redel. There was a Helene Bolvig 4 years old only. There were some Redel families (under various spellings, e.g., Rihdel, Ridel, Redel, Rydahl, Rødohl, Rødel, Riedel, etc.), especially in Sankt Anna Vester Quarter, as well as Øster Quarter, but didn't appear to be related -- SRE, 30 Jul 2002.
